Interviewed by: Mike Sweeney
Steel GuitarWorld Magazine
ISSUE #23 1995
with permission of: Mike Sweeney
Lynn, here we are again. Hopefully it won't be wasted this
time and we can get this thing to record. How you been
I'm doing just fine. I'm back to picking, I'm so happy!
That's good, man, we need you back picking. You've got no
business doing anything else. Tell us about the reunion of
Well our Texas Troubadour Reunion came together with great
success. There were 23 of us together for the first time
ever in history. It took years to do it. It was something
that Ernest kind of wanted to do even before he left and it
just never did happen. We finally got it together and they
came from all over the world. We had five or six
International Steel Guitar Hall of Fame members that came
in. I will name some of them for you: Don Helms, Jimmy Day,
Buddy Emmons, Buddy Charleton, Kimo Head, Dickie Harris,
Johnny Cox, and me. That was the steel players. On guitar we
had: Leon Rhodes, Pete Mitchell, and Steve Chapman. Billy
Byrd didn't perform with us, but he sat out on the stage and
smiled a lot end just thoroughly enjoyed it. And we had two
of our old bass players and front men showed up; Junior
Pruneda from way down in Texas and Ronnie Dale from here in
town. Then we had tag team drummers, Jimmy Heap, Jr. and Don
Mills. That was the stage set-up pretty much. We lined the
front of the stage with steels; the second tier was guitars
and the third, rhythm section. We let a few fiddle players
work off and on, on the right side.
That was at the Bell Cove right?
No, that was here. We did the same set-up on three different
shows. They asked me about it; the sound and light people
said, "the way you want this stage set up it is all steel
guitars and there is no room for singers," and I said "now
you're getting it."
That's good, I like that.
Of course we dug out a little hole between Emmons and
Charleton so Darrell McCall could come in and sing a couple.
That was awfully nice of you!
Darrell was never a Troubadour, but he was always a friend
and he could have been a Troubadour, he just wouldn't work
He wouldn't work that cheap. So tell us about some of your
memorable experiences, that are repeatable, about working
with the Troubadours?
Well there's been so many, you'd have time to read "Gone
With The Wind" while I tell them. One of the things that my
memory got jogged about today, Cal Sharp was over here a few
minutes ago and Cal's ex-wife was with him and I was telling
Johnny Bush the first time I met Cal and Beverly was in
Houston. I didn't know them and I was down with the
Troubadours and Ernest and they came to our show and as soon
as the show was over Cal walked over and introduced himself,
introduced Bev and another gentleman with them, who was
Bev's brother, Cal's brother-in-law, and after talking with
him for a few minutes Cal asked me if I would sell him my
right boot and I said "no, I ain't selling you a boot. As a
matter of fact, I wouldn't even sell you a pair of boots,
but you can get some like them from Champion Patent Leather
Boots." He said; "No, your right boot is what I want, it's
special." I was beginning to think that maybe they were
nuts. But I couldn't figure out why they wanted my right
boot and he explained the story to me. Bev's brother had to
have some surgery just prior to us showing up in town for
our concert and he lost his leg at the hip, it had to be
amputated and it is a traumatic experience for anybody and
he decided to have a funeral for that leg and he wanted to
bury it in a Texas Troubadour boot. When they told me that I
just pulled the right boot off and handed it right across
the guitar and said, "take it." I walked back on the bus
with one boot and one sock. Ernest asked me about where my
other boot and I said, "It's a new thing, going around.
Everybody is going to one boot, hadn't you heard."
That's pretty good. I just got done with an interview with
Mr. Johnny Bush and he said you and he have been making
rounds around town. I asked him some questions and I'm going
to ask you about the same thing. How do you feel about the
state of steel guitar in country music today as opposed to
20-25 years ago?
I feel that for my part of it, it is pretty much the same as
it was 20-25 years ago. I pretty much do the same things. As
far as the steel guitar and music, I think that some of the
things that're being done nowadays is great, but it takes a
lot of talent and a lot of ability to do some of these
things, and I'm impressed but after listening to them for a
few minutes, they kind of wear out quick. Whereas things
that were happening in steel 20-30 years ago, linger and
have more staying power, I believe the feel, the taste.
There was a time when most steel players played melodies,
.things that you could kind of whistle to and that's not
happening near enough nowadays, I think.
Do you think it has gotten to where people are getting more
technical and not enough soul into it?
Some, I do feel that way. It seems that some of the younger
guys are more impressed and are more into playing with speed
and to some, it seems like to me, that it is a contest to
see how many notes you can get into a bar. Like I say, it
takes a lot of talent and ability to do that but I'm not
overly impressed by it. I haven't really worked on it a lot
to do it myself. I never was a fast player and some of them
faster things, I just cut them to half time, and keep
There isn't anything wrong with that. I've talked with some
people, a lot of other players, and they seem to think a lot
of it is due to the style of music today.
I have noticed that a lot of steel players now seem to play
more scales, making a steel sound more like a guitar. They
are playing more single note things, fast speedy things.
They are kind of leaning toward the Roy Nichols style guitar
or somebody like that, a Roy Nichols/James Burton type and
that's nice. Some of it is nice. Some of it I wish I could
play. But then there are some that I feel get carried away
with it. Now while we are on that subject, I said they are
leaning more to guitar style applied to steel. There are a
lot of people who begin with guitar and change to steel and
that comes natural. That's a real good background for them.
I'm not really into making the steel sound like a guitar or
a banjo, or sound Iike something else; that doesn't really
impress me that much. At the convention last year, there was
a guy that wanted to show me a machine that can make my
steel sound just like a piano. I said, "Why? I got a piano;
I don't need that."
Well, let's talk about your start here in Nashville when you
came to town, some of the people you worked with before you
went to work with Ernest Tubb.
I came here in 1968 and met Shot Jackson, of course. I had
met him a time or two before, but I got to know Shot a
little bit and he helped me to meet some people and I worked
with Wanda Jackson's Party Timers for a brief time and then
to Charlie Louvin. Went on the Opry with Charlie for the
first time not Charlie's first time, my first time. That was
back when we were down at the old Opry. I got in on four or
five years of playing the old Opry. That was a lot of fun.
Back in those days there were a lot of musicians and people
around that are big stars now. Very talented people; lot of
them are not here anymore. We developed some friendships
that have lasted; a good many of them are still here. They
were wonderful times. Of course, I guess these are the good
old days but those were wonderful times. I did the Charlie
Louvin thing for about a year, maybe a little less. I worked
with Billy Walker for a time and then I did a lot of pick up
dates with people like Del Reeves, and even worked with
Marty some. I never worked for him regular, just a spot with
Marty Robbins and I stayed with Billy Walker for a time.
Back in those days we were only a four piece band. That was
a lot of fun. That was back when Billy had "Sing Me A Love
Song To Baby," that was one of his hits. I just loved
playing Billy Walker's stuff. I like playing all of it
really. Anyhow, getting on with it, I'm getting away from my
story. Billy Walker, then on to about three years with
Stonewall Jackson. That was a whole other book. I loved it;
three good years with Stonewall, a lot of fun. It wasn't all
at one time, Stonewall fired me every three weeks so three
years with him was an accumulative total. Then from that to,
there's a guy that I got to meet, when I was with Stonewall.
And the Troubadours introduced me to him up in West
Virginia. He told me he was coming to Nashville the next
week and as a matter of fact before we left that night he
decided to save car fare or bus fare... whatever, (he
couldn't get a plane down here) so he just rode down with
Ernest and the Troubadours. He decided he would hitchhike
home after he cut his session. But the session was "Borrowed
Angel" and the artist was Mel Street. I worked with Mel some
in the very beginning and then helped him put his first band
together. I give him some real good names. He got Mike
Johnson on steel, and Mike stayed with him a good while' I
think Mike stayed with him until he died. Then from there on
to Ernest and the Troubadours.
What kind of guitar and stuff are you using now - amps,
effects and so forth?
I'm playing twin Evans amps and I have played Evans amps for
many years. There was a time that I used Peavey and I like
Peavey. They're wonderful amps but I kind of got hooked on
the Evans too. I had one Evans at home that is 25-28 years
old. It's got a 12" and 15" all in one cabinet; it's 500
watt. I can't take it on the road, I'm not able to lift it
anymore. I use two Evans FET 500's now.
(In late 1995 he started using WEBB
amps and still using them today) I am playing an
Emmons guitar and a Derby guitar. The Derby is from
Louisville. I've got two of those. They are real good
guitars and I still have my old Emmons guitar. My favorite
old Emmons is one that I had the 100,000 mile checkup done
on it 12 times and I set it back and didn't play it for
several years and last Christmas I decided I wanted to get
it out and dust it off, grease it up and play it some more.
I sent it up to East Tennessee, up to Mountain City to Brian
Adams, an old friend of mine. I got him to rebuild it and
Brian went through it from A to Z and got it back in like
new condition and I just love that old Emmons. I don't take
it out that much because it's like a cherished instrument
anymore. I don't take it with me that much.
How do you feel about some of the newer players around town
who are coming up that you know? What do you think about how
they're doing and how they are coming along?
There are several around that I am really impressed by and
always have been impressed by some since day one. I met some
of them when they were 12 and 13 years old and nowadays they
are hit maker steel players. Paul Franklin is one of them. I
am a fan of Paul's. I just love his playing. Of course
Paul's not one of the newer ones anymore I guess. There are
kids around like Dan Galish with Aaron Tippin. Are you
familiar with Dan?
Dan does some things that impress me and he is one of the
newer players that has studied the history of the instrument
too. He's gone back for 20-30-40 years at least and you can
tell that when you find a new player, you can tell the
difference. You can tell whether or not they have done their
homework and Dan's one of the ones who has done his
homework. Jay Andrews is one of the ones. He is with Johnny
Paycheck. He's done his homework, he's up and coming, in his
sounds and his playing. I can't say that he's playing his
ass off, can I?
Well, sure you can.
There's a, he's not a newer one, I keep thinking of some of
them in terms of newer. I keep thinking,of Paul Franklin and
Mike Johnson as kids. I guess that's a sign of getting old.
Mike Johnson is one. He's not a newer one, but he's one that
really impresses me and of course I've got my old standby
favorites Buddy Emmons, Jimmy Day, John Hughey. I've got so
many heroes that it would take all day to tell you who they
are. That's another thing that's great. about this
instrument. By playing steel guitar and being involved in
the world of steel guitar, the players, the circle of
friends, you develop so many friends and heroes. It's not
like any other instrument that I know of. Fiddle players
don't do this. Bass players don't do it much. Guitar
players. Well, there is no hall of fame for fiddle players,
guitar players, harmonica players. I guess there should be.
But with the steel guitar, we've got the Steel Guitar Hall
of Fame, thanks to Jim Vest and the efforts of Scotty DeWitt
in St. Louis and the efforts of many others that helped. So
we've got a big jump. It's probably the newest instrument in
history but we have a big jump on all those others. We've
gained them in leaps and bounds and the instrument is
changing. There was a gentleman who didn't know anything
about steel out there who asked me about steel guitars and
when was it invented. I told him a little bit about the
Hawaiian, playing them with knife handles and things like
that, putting a nut under the string. I told him, "but the
pedal steel guitar was not invented just in a matter of
months. People took the old grand-daddy double and triple
necks and started drilling holes in them and putting rods in
them and then they would come up and put a piece on them at
the time and it evolved". Shot Jackson, for instance, when
he started he wasn't building steel guitars. He would take
Fenders and Gibsons and Bigsbys and drilled some holes in
them, and put you some rods and pedals in them. He just
modified guitars. Jimmy Day finally got on him and said,
"Look, pop, why don't you build you a guitar instead of
drilling these out. Just build one that's got it all on
there, you will make a lot of people happy and maybe you
will get rich." He did both.
Lynn, what advice would you give to somebody just starting
out who wanted to get into steel guitar and make a living at
it, just starting out playing. What advice would you give
It would be to be prepared to spend a lot of time with your
instrument. I guess first advice would be to get a quality
instrument and then spend a lot of time with it and probably
what I think would be the most important advice to anybody,
and I've covered this, I mentioned it a minute ago, study
some of the history, some of the musical history and if you
can find the records and tapes, and they are available, go,
back and see what people were doing with it 40 and 50 years
ago and 20 and 30 years ago, and 10 years ago and learn to
do some of all of it. That would be my advice. If you don't
you're limiting yourself and that's happening today too. You
don't have to print this, but I'll go ahead and tell it. I
met a gentleman here a few months back and we were talking.
He was a steel guitar player, and played an Emmons. I sat
down to his guitar and did a couple of things that he'd
never heard of before. I said, "Oh, this is a standard, so
and so did it on ..." and I named some things. He'd never
heard of Lloyd Green, he'd never heard of Jimmy Day. He
didn't know who Buddy Emmons was. He had a star job. I told
him, "You can open up the world. You've got a world of stuff
if you just read and listen. You can be a whole lot better
at what you do if you just open yourself up to it." That is
my advice: open up to whatever happened years ago and go
back and delve into Bobby Koefer, Tommy Morrell, Leon
McAuliffe, and then buy you some stuff and just come all the
way through it to. the invention of pedals of Bud Issacs,
then in to the Jimmy Day/Buddy Emmons era and just listening
will really improve a person's playing. If they dedicate
themselves and spend some time with it and they don't really
have to sit down and learn to copy every lick, just by
listening to it, it will become ingrained up here, and you
will be trying to transpose some of it to your music. I
think it enhances any steel player's sound to be able to, if
you are working professionally, you want to be able to make
a certain song sound like a certain thing. If you are doing
a Webb Pierce song, you want to make it sound like a Webb
Pierce song. You don't have to copy it, but be reminiscent
of that particular era. I think all of us or most of us try
to do that.'That would be my advice to new players.
When we did this interview last time it didn't turn out too
good. How about you sharing the story with everybody about
you winning the bus from Ernest by shooting dice, or
whatever it was that you were doing.
We landed in Olyand, New York, in a blizzard, I say landed
but the bus came to a stop. We were playing a job there the
following day, and we got in the night before. When we
rolled in there we were shooting dice and I had Ernest down
pretty bad (pretty good for me). I had won a lot of money.
The snow was building up outside. Everybody else went to
their rooms except me and Ernest; we were still on the bus
shooting dice and Olyand, New York just rolls up the
sidewalk. We were there at the Holiday Inn,. At 9:00 or
10:00 that night the driver came out and told us, look guys,
I won't be able to help you get in this motel 'cause I came
out with a shovel to dig out some air holes for this bus.
Dig the snow out to keep the engine running", he said, "we
are in for a blizzard." Ernest and I both said, "We don't
care." I got all ET's cash and started loaning him cash
back. After a few thousand dollars dropped, I was just
playing with him more than anything, I said, "Look, I just
can't loan this kind of large amounts of money. I'm just a
poor old side band musician, I can't make these unsecured
loans. I've got to have a little security." He said, "Well,
if you've got to have security, take my guitar and give me
another $500." 1 said, "Now, Ernest, I can't even play the
guitar, I don't need no guitar. I am thinking more in terms
of this bus." We kept the titles and all the bus
paperwork/registration in a pouch right behind the driver's
seat. He reached over and got the document pouch and got it
all out and I said, "Well, just sign it over to me; you can
make an assignment on it.
You don't mind that do you?" "Oh no." So he got up and
signed it then said, "Now, let me have some more money." I
kept letting him have more money. We quit playing late that
night and he still owed me a lot of money. I told him, "You
know this bus is mine, until you make your debt right." He
said, "Oh, yeah." The next day when we got ready to head for
the concert, I got on the bus about 15-20 minutes before he
got out there and I moved all his stuff from his state room
up front and piled it all on my bunk and got all my stuff
and moved into his state room. When he came on the bus, he
walked in, opened up the door and I was piled up in the
middle of his bunk watching TV, kicked back, relaxed and he
said, "Just what the Hell's going on here." I said, "Don't
you remember? You lost this bus last night. I just wanted to
let you know that there have been some changes made around
here." I told him, "But you will be comfortable in that
bunk, it's a ground floor bunk and it won't have a lot of
sway to it. You will really enjoy that. Be sure and not
leave my TV on. Turn it off when you get out of the bunk."
He got hot about that. He told the driver (this was on a
Sunday) "Monday, you get in touch with Jackson, [he was our
CPA] and get him to get some money up here. I need to get my
bus back where I can get control over this man." He got it
back. He won the money back in two or three days. It might
not have sounded like big amounts of money sometime, but it
was. But to fight boredom we gambled big. He might have hit
me for big amounts too the same way.
I hear something is in the works for another Troubadour
Well, I talked to Jimmy Davis this morning and he suggested
we need to get back in the studio and we want to do it
before the next six or eight weeks. We want to do it in a
hurry, but I don't know that I will have the time. We want
to go in and cut pretty much a greatest hits, Ernest Tubb
all steel album, with the Troubadours. I've got some
volunteers to help and it ought to come out real good. I'm
thinking it will. We want to get back and do that. It should
be interesting. It ought to be a lot of fun to do. A lot of
people have asked about that very thing over the years.
There have been some bits and pieces; Ernest Tubb
instrumentals, cut but I don't think anybody, any of the
Troubadours, have cut a greatest hits steel album. So it
might be another first.
We will be looking for that. Are the Troubadours going to be
doing any dates any time soon?
Yeah, we are going to be going back to work some. There are
two fairly new developments and one coming. There are a
couple of us that are retired now from other things and we
got more spare time. I am going to take an early retirement.
I am going to be having a lot of leisure time in about 30
days from today. 1 am going to let UPS see if they will get
along without me. Next month, I am going to retire and we
plan on working the Troubadours. I guess one of the first
things we will do is to hit Texas with Johnny Bush and we
are going to go back to some of those old big gigantic Texas
dance halls that we used to play and go do some more of
those big dances. I suppose Austin is going to be our first
stop. We are going to bill it "Texas Troubadours and
Friends." So, when we hit Austin we are going to have some
friends. I am not at liberty to tell you who they all are
but one of them will be Johnny Bush. He is definitely going
to be in there and play some fiddles, drums and move around
some. Johnny is an honorary Troubadour and we are going to
hit down there with about eight of us and people in Austin
are really looking forward to it and I am too. That will
probably be in late September. Over the winter, we are going
to work about five or six dates. Then next spring, none of
us want to work a whole lot, but we are hoping to get back
out and maybe work three or four days a month. Maybe five
days a month. We will be following a circuit. Basically the
same as the Texas Playboys are doing now and the Drifting
Cowboys. We will be doing a lot of the old Ernest Tubb
music. A lot of it will be vocals, and a lot will be
Troubadour instrumentals. The main reason we are doing it is
for our own fun and ego and all of us enjoy it so much we
can't let it go; we can't give it up. Ernest left us a
legacy in music and it's ingrained.
He sure did. The new Troubadour Theater here in town, you
are all doing that pretty much regular too, aren't you?
Yeah, we've done some shows; well, we are here now. We are
doing some and have some planned for the future. Quite
possibly Labor Day, but we don't know for sure yet, we are
going to be in Nashville the day after the convention. I
don't know the location but we've already decided that we
are going to work a date. I should have that ironed out
sometime tonight. John's coming back with us. Tonight ought
to be interesting; we are going to put Johnny Bush, Rufus
Tibado and David Russell together on fiddles.
That would be good. I am hoping we come over here on a break
and sneak in. They will probably end up sending the law
after me wondering why I ain't back at work.
We used to do that with Randy Travis. We would sneak him out
over there and bring him over for a song or two. The old
building was a little closer.
Yeah, I am hoping to do that. I was telling John that I was
wanting to come over and see him tonight if I get a chance.
I never think about it until it's time to go home.
You were asking about future plans. The Troubadours working
is one of the things. Since I am retiring, I will probably
work harder than I ever have worked in my life, but my long
range plans are to open a music shop right here on Music
Valley Drive. I am probably going to feature the steel
guitar, steels and amps. I will have accessories for
everything, but steels and amps are going to be the headline
on it. I will have repairs and custom things. We will
probably be doing some t-shirts, ball caps and things as a
side service to the music store. It will be for the
professional, it may be a one stop service. We can lease
busses through the music store, and make you stage
backdrops. I am setting that up now. We are going to set up
a plant for that up in Millersville. That's one of my plans.
I am hoping to see a lot of old friends!
That sounds like a good deal. Keep us posted on that!
Webmaster Danny Hammers
Monday, March 25, 2013 09:27 PM.
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